Tough question about the doctrine of eternal hell

[thirdday609]

my biggest problem with losing your salvation is what is the point of being saved then?? we all sin daily and to have to get re-saved every day is a mockery of Christ's work on the cross when He declares in victory "It is Finished!" It would be the worst life and I would not want to be a Christian if I were to believe that every time I sinned I lost my salvation and became unsaved cause that is a miserable life to live

I'm really sick of people saying this. You're making salvation selfish. It's something you do for yourself so you can go to heaven. If it was about God, instead of about you, then you would want to please Him. He wants his children to want to please Him, not to say a little prayer and then do whatever they want. The greatest commandment is to love God. If we love God, we'll want to stop sinning, and just like Jude 24 says, God has the power to help us with that if we want Him to. People are just so lazy and happy living their sinful lives that they want to make excuses and say "Well, I'm a Christian, so I can do whatever I want and God will still love me! Besides, everyone sins every day because it's human nature." But the Bible says to die to yourself and to live in Christ, and Christ doesn't sin daily.

If someone says a prayer and accepts Jesus, then a year later they become a serial killer and rapist, do you think they would go to heaven?

[I'll respond to the rest of your post later, my brain got fried at work today so I won't be using it too much until tomorrow. ]

say that you can lose your salvation and you are a devout christian but you sin one day and go to sleep to wake up in eternity without getting resaved. you were a devout christian for 10+ years and did everything right and loved Jesus but this one time that you did nothing you died and now you are in hell forever? that is not a loving or just God and if God is like that then He is not the God i serve

[TweezyRocksMyIpod]

I agree with Third. What's the point of being saved if you can just suddenly say, "What the heck, God. I don't want you anymore!" and walk away? We're all inclined to sin anyways, so i guess everybody went to hell too. What about Moses? his last moments were begging God to let him go into the promise land. Isn't not being content a sin too? oh, poor Moses. hmm... and it never said that James wasn't scared as he got killed. Not trusting God is a sin too. He could be in Hell, too. This sucks.I guess Heaven's an empty place  Too bad Jesus died for nobody 
buuut... looking on the bright side, I'm secure in Him, sooo.... I'm heaven bound. haha that freaked me out for a sec 

[saintgato116]

Hey Nerd42. I want to know where you get this season place in Revelation. could you please explain it in a nutshell so I dont have to read some big huge web link.

[Nerd42]

Hey Nerd42. I want to know where you get this season place in Revelation. could you please explain it in a nutshell so I dont have to read some big huge web link.

It's in Revelations chapter 20. http://kingjbible.com/revelation/20.htm

After the Millennial Reign, Satan is loosed again to deceive the nations. Many Christians (and not just Latter Day Saints like me) believe the purpose of this "Little Season" period is to allow those souls that didn't get the opportunity to accept Christ in this life to have the opportunity then.

[saintgato116]

Hey Nerd42. I want to know where you get this season place in Revelation. could you please explain it in a nutshell so I dont have to read some big huge web link.

It's in Revelations chapter 20. http://kingjbible.com/revelation/20.htm

After the Millennial Reign, Satan is loosed again to deceive the nations. Many Christians (and not just Latter Day Saints like me) believe the purpose of this "Little Season" period is to allow those souls that didn't get the opportunity to accept Christ in this life to have the opportunity then.

I should have figured. Joseph Smith said that, didnt he?

[Nerd42]

Hey Nerd42. I want to know where you get this season place in Revelation. could you please explain it in a nutshell so I dont have to read some big huge web link.

It's in Revelations chapter 20. http://kingjbible.com/revelation/20.htm

After the Millennial Reign, Satan is loosed again to deceive the nations. Many Christians (and not just Latter Day Saints like me) believe the purpose of this "Little Season" period is to allow those souls that didn't get the opportunity to accept Christ in this life to have the opportunity then.

I should have figured. Joseph Smith said that, didnt he?

No, actually even the Left Behind people believe that. You'll find a confused version of it mentioned in the Left Behind series book, "Kingdom Come." I'm not recommending that series, just using it to show this "Little Season" doctrine exists in Protestantism as well.

[thirdday609]

Hey Nerd42. I want to know where you get this season place in Revelation. could you please explain it in a nutshell so I dont have to read some big huge web link.

It's in Revelations chapter 20. http://kingjbible.com/revelation/20.htm

After the Millennial Reign, Satan is loosed again to deceive the nations. Many Christians (and not just Latter Day Saints like me) believe the purpose of this "Little Season" period is to allow those souls that didn't get the opportunity to accept Christ in this life to have the opportunity then.

I should have figured. Joseph Smith said that, didnt he?

No, actually even the Left Behind people believe that. You'll find a confused version of it mentioned in the Left Behind series book, "Kingdom Come." I'm not recommending that series, just using it to show this "Little Season" doctrine exists in Protestantism as well.

No the Left Behind series does not. It does tell of the Millennial Kingdom which is biblical. But they in no way suggest that people who did not get the chance to accept Christ after he has already returned to establish His kingdom will get another shot.

This "Little Season" is not a Protestantism belief at all (much less a Christian doctrine) and is in fact very un-biblical when you look at it. If you are to believe that people who have died already will then get a second chance you are going against Paul's teaching when he writes "It is appointed for man once to die, and then comes judgement". Paul does not say here that "It is appointed man once to die, and then in the Millennial Kingdom they will get a second chance to accept Jesus". Men have 1 life and in that 1 life they have to choose whether to accept Jesus or reject Him. They will not have the chance after they have died since their is a chasm set between Heaven and Hell that no man can cross (paraphrased from the Rich man and Lazarus parable).

[Nerd42]

No the Left Behind series does not.

Yes it does, read the book. In "Kingdom Come" there are children popping up who died without knowing the Lord who grow up in the Millennial Reign and their heads suddenly asplode if they grow up to be 100 years old and haven't said the magic words by then. You'll also find the doctrine in old Protestant books. They've given up on it only recently, in the last 80 or so years.

This "Little Season" is not a Protestantism belief at all (much less a Christian doctrine) and is in fact very un-biblical when you look at it. If you are to believe that people who have died already will then get a second chance you are going against Paul's teaching when he writes "It is appointed for man once to die, and then comes judgement". Paul does not say here that "It is appointed man once to die, and then in the Millennial Kingdom they will get a second chance to accept Jesus".

But neither does Paul mention babies or women. Only "men." And which judgement does it refer to? There may be more than one. I think there are two and it's referring to the first, which has already happened by the period spoken of in Revelations 20. Paul also said, "where no law is, there is no transgression" but you don't hear Protestants stressing that teaching.

I bet you think three wise men visited the manger too.

[Lotus Elise]

But neither does Paul mention babies or women. Only "men."

Man is in reference to the human race.  that often appears in the bible

[Nerd42]

But neither does Paul mention babies or women. Only "men."

Man is in reference to the human race.  that often appears in the bible

I'm aware of that, though it it not always the case. Am just pointing out there are a number of possible interpretations outside of saintgato116's little box.

[ShieldsofFaith]

I'm aware of that, though it it not always the case. Am just pointing out there are a number of possible interpretations outside of saintgato116's little box.

While I wouldn't assume to speak for gato, I do know he is my brother in many ways, and as such I wouldn't be surprised if he feels the same way I do about interpretations that are "outside of the box".
Believe me if I had a time machine, one of my desinations would be the middle of the 1800's, so that I could visit one Joseph Smith.

[firefly]

if i had a time machine, my destination would be august 15th, 1969, new york.

[johntheumfreak]

^I don't get it.


Third, I'm not saying I agree with Nerd, but you're argument does have a bit of a hole in it (from my view). While, as far as I know, Revelations doesn't say "people who never accepted Christ in life will have the opportunity to accept him then", the "little season" Nerd is talking about is, in fact, Biblical.

Revelation 20 (NIV)

1And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. 2He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. 3He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.

 4I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.
Satan's Doom
 7When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison 8and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. 9They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God's people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them. 10And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
The Dead Are Judged
 11Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. 14Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
---

forgive me if i'm completely missing the point (again), i rarely debate scripture anymore.

[thirdday609]

^I don't get it.


Third, I'm not saying I agree with Nerd, but you're argument does have a bit of a hole in it (from my view). While, as far as I know, Revelations doesn't say "people who never accepted Christ in life will have the opportunity to accept him then", the "little season" Nerd is talking about is, in fact, Biblical.

Revelation 20 (NIV)

1And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. 2He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. 3He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.

 4I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.
Satan's Doom
 7When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison 8and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. 9They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God's people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them. 10And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
The Dead Are Judged
 11Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. 14Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
---

forgive me if i'm completely missing the point (again), i rarely debate scripture anymore.

I dont dispute that there is a "Little Season" in Revelation where the Devil will be released after the thousand years and be able to gather an army. But this army is not made up of people who have already died and then been resurrected again to have a second shot at accepting Christ during the thousand year reign. That is what Nerd is suggesting.

Now I have no idea who the Devil will be deceiving (though it is possible that the Priests who are reigning with Christ over the thousand years are able to marry and have children, and since their is no grandfather clause to salvation those children then have to make the choice to accept God as well) But what Nerd is suggesting is that the "Little Season" is a time where people who are now currently dead will be given a second chance to accept Christ which is completely un-biblical (though i wish this were not the case, and i wish that some of my friends who died young were given a second chance, i know that it is not how it is)

sorry if i confused you there john haha

[Nerd42]

You're using the term "second" in a way that makes no sense, because there wasn't a "first" in these cases

I'm aware of that, though it it not always the case. Am just pointing out there are a number of possible interpretations outside of saintgato116's little box.

While I wouldn't assume to speak for gato, I do know he is my brother in many ways, and as such I wouldn't be surprised if he feels the same way I do about interpretations that are "outside of the box".

What matters is how God feels about them.

Don't mean to be flippant when I say that, just sayin

Believe me if I had a time machine, one of my desinations would be the middle of the 1800's, so that I could visit one Joseph Smith.

And I suppose if I had a time machine, one person I'd want to visit would be Martin Luther. But on second thought, why not go right back to the first century and ask Jesus Himself? Or forget the time machine because Jesus is alive today.